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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello from Sydney Australia Richard

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Saunders here for the skeptic Zone

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episode number 155 for the eighth of

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October 2011 and yes I have a cold Oh

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modern science hurry up and discover the

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cure the cure for the common cold well

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this is very common cold this one it's

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particularly common it's a stuffed up

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nose a bit of sneezing feeling slightly

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tired bad sleep yeah pretty

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run-of-the-mill cold oh well I'll forget

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about it for the next hour because

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coming up on this episode of the skeptic

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zone very shortly I'm going to tell you

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all about some great skeptical activism

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success here in Australia with another

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one of these wacko crazy bizarre energy

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bands it's coming up very soon and also

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on the show we have a talk by Joel

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Pittman has given it Sydney skeptics in

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the pub all about what it was like not

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so many years ago to be a an outreach

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person and outreach with the youth

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ministry of a Pentecostal church very

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interesting stuff and now their mindset

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was when they went into schools and I

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was quite horrified to learn how easy it

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is for people with the badge of religion

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how easy it is for them sometimes to

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have access to children in schools we

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will learn more a little bit later in

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the show and to wrap up the show we have

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a series of our little interviews sort

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of sparked off by a discussion that our

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reporter main our head with me a few

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days ago about the term debunker and

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what people think of that term is it

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better than skeptic is it worse than

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skeptic should we not use it when is it

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their appropriate to use it skeptics and

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deep bunkers

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a series of interviews of lots of people

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at skeptics in the pub coming up but to

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wrap up the show but first some news the

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website of Mamma Mia wwm am a Mau Mau

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has almost gone into meltdown if sites

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can go into meltdown these days because

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our very own dr. Richie wrote a blog

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post there called nine vaccination myths

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busted with science and it's been widely

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reported it's a it's an excellent blog

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post if you just Google nine vaccination

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myths and Rachel Dunlop you'll find the

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article very easily because the URLs

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very long just google it but what's very

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interesting is that the number of

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comments it's insane oh boy what is it

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as I look now it's 745 and Brian the

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anti-vaxxers have got on their big time

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accusing Rachel of being in the pocket

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of big pharma well that's nothing new

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she's been accused of that long time so

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have I I think so has anybody with a

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skeptical mind pushing real medicine and

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vaccination anyway ah so much attention

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was given to this blog post by the sheer

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volume of traffic going through that

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Rachel was invited on the television

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program of mia freedman the lady behind

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mamma mia website and she was in the

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studio just a few days ago and that I

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believe will be on Sky News here in

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Australia this coming Friday fear not if

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you go to mama mia condotta you next

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week you can probably see that episode

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as they archive it and make it available

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for you anyway worth checking out so

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Google Rachel Dunlop nine vaccination

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myths and you'll find out more now a

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good friend and former skeptic zone

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reporter Michael will hand has asked me

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to mention that

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in November November the second in fact

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at the parliament house in canberra we

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have cults in australia facing the

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realities a national conference and this

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is by the cold information and family

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support inc or C ifs the objective of

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the conference is to focus attention on

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and recommend safeguards against a

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serious harm caused by destructive cults

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in Australia now if you're interested or

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concerned about this sort of thing maybe

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you know somebody who has got themselves

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a tangled up in a cult the best thing to

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do is to go to the website for more

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information and that's wwc ifs oga you

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so remember that's early November

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Wednesday the second of November

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starting at 9am in our nation's capital

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and now we get to the successful

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skeptical activism I mentioned a little

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while ago now it came to our attention

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not so long ago that the rebels sport

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the rebel sport chain here in Australia

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which sell shoes and socks and running

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the equipment and exercise machines and

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all great things for sport we're selling

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something called the NRG the NRG

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titanium ion band and it looks

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surprisingly similar well sort of to the

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old power balance band the one that was

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debunked and shut down here in Australia

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now as it happens rebel sport last year

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were selling the power balance band so

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we were surprised very surprised to see

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that they had simply taken up the next

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band making all sorts of amazing claim

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so we were quite surprised and saddened

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to see this so we thought would take

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some pretty quick and direct action so

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here is the letter we wrote to both

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rebel sport and to the ni

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gee company the producers of this rubber

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wristband and also publish on our

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website as an open letter Ozzy's love

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their support and love affair go for all

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rebel sport provides a range of sporting

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accessories on which everyday people and

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athletes rely to get the most out of

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their sporting life it is therefore

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disappointing to see that rebel sport is

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selling something that in our opinion

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does not and cannot live up to the

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marketing claims the NRG titanium iron

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band currently being sold via rebel

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sports outlets seems to be yet another

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in the long line of so-called power

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bands rubber wristbands that claim to

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aid sporting performance and health it

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was not so long ago rebel sport was

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selling the now debunked power balance

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band if this wristband was merely being

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touted as a fashion accessory we would

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have no objections to rebel sports

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decision to stock and promote it to

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customers however NRG and rebel sport as

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stockists are selling a product which is

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making questionable but testable medical

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claims NRG publicly states that it quote

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has made a breakthrough in negative ion

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technology and quote if so we would very

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much like to see the peer-reviewed

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scientific studies it sounds very much

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to us that NRG are simply using

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scientific sounding words and terms in

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order to market their product some of

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the medical claims made by the NRG

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company are that benefits may include

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increased blood flow increased

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circulation revitalization of red blood

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cells neutralize free radicals there is

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no credible evidence that this product

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can alter the physiology of the human

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body and until the manufacturer

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demonstrates this with actual scientific

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studies then they are potentially

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misleading customers with claims about

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benefits which their product may not

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have upon reviewing the medical evidence

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put forward by NRG dr. Steven novella

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assistant professor of neurology at Yale

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University School of Medicine said quote

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none of the proper controls are in place

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to make the information anything other

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than a marketing demonstration similar

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to the parlor tricks used by power

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balance end quote and quote there is

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every reason to believe that these

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titanium bands are medically worthless

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and quote just like the ill-fated Power

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Balance product before them NRG rely

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heavily on testimonials from sporting

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stars notably from the NRL that's the

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National Rugby League however while no

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doubt heartfelt and sincere they are not

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evidence that the product works as

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claimed Australian skeptics urge rebel

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sport to reconsider their decision to

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sell the NRG titanium ion band if

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however NRG and rebel sports stand

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behind the claims of the titanium iron

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band we invite them to apply for our

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$100,000 prize Australian skeptics Inc

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now that open letter was posted on the

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Australian skeptics website on sep

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tember 26th and on sep tember 30th rebel

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sport twittered the following we

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appreciate feedback regarding and RG

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titanium iron bands we are discussing

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with energy and have decided to remove

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the product from sale in our stores I

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think we need to thank all those people

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who are retweeted our original posting

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certainly brought it to the attention of

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rebel sport and Australian skeptics also

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congratulate rebel sport for taking this

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action one that puts their customers

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first it is another good example of

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skeptical activism at work well on that

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six

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full of that very successful night I

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will leave you now as I run downstairs

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to for my what will it be this week

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vodka martini stirred not shaken down

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gin and tonic hot chocolate in the air

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chicken soup mmm cold medicine ah I'm

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gonna sit down and have some cold

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medicine and let you enjoy the skeptics

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a recent speaker at Sydney's skeptics in

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the pub was Joel Pittman now his family

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joined a Pentecostal church when he was

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only four and he himself was actively

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involved in youth ministry leadership

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from the age of 15 well I actually want

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to start tonight what I'm gonna be

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talking about is the Evangelic or

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movement and I would take that sort of

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encompass you know charismatic San

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Pentecostals who would see themselves a

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slightly different as well as and I want

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to I want to talk about them but

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slightly through the frame of their

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involvement with Scripture and scripture

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and in public high schools now for

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anyone who hasn't met me before it

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doesn't know me I was a youth pastor for

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a couple of years I grew up in a

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Pentecostal evangelical church and my

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involvement is sort of extended to

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teaching Scripture and a couple of state

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high schools in the western suburbs III

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thought what might be good and for

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anyone who had me speak at skeptic camp

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this is what I did at skeptic amp was to

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talk about how the Avenger local church

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works in high schools and also on that

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ground how they work on indoctrinating

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children with both state and community

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funding to get young children to join

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their churches now this seems too many

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people when I talk to them they often

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say that doesn't happen or or you see a

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little bit about like say access

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ministries and things like that and they

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make a slip up at a conference but

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surely most of the people that go in a

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trained and they have some understanding

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of what they're doing so I thought what

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I might do tonight is a very abridged

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version of taking you through what it

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might be like for you as a student in a

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school going to one of the scripture

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classes that I taught we would start

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week one where we'd introduce the

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concept of God that would mean basically

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introduced I'm Adam of course I mean the

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Christian God because there isn't

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other one and an explaining why he is

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actually the right God and that if

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you've chosen another one then you know

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well don't worry we'll get to that in a

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00:14:25,569 --> 00:14:23,449
couple of weeks time but explaining who

275
00:14:28,269 --> 00:14:25,579
God is and starting to introduce who

276
00:14:30,309 --> 00:14:28,279
Jesus is etc now at this point it's all

277
00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:30,319
very nice and quite rosy and you know

278
00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:32,300
well this is just you know some of our

279
00:14:35,530 --> 00:14:34,100
beliefs and we're great and we're all

280
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:35,540
interested in all your opinions about

281
00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:37,310
everything and isn't it you know nice

282
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,769
and then the next week they come in and

283
00:14:43,420 --> 00:14:41,360
we start we talk about what we would

284
00:14:45,069 --> 00:14:43,430
have deemed loosely as morality and i

285
00:14:46,990 --> 00:14:45,079
suppose what what they're trying to

286
00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:47,000
argue now is what what Scripture teaches

287
00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:49,100
currently do is teach a form of ethics

288
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:50,540
which is where we would come in and then

289
00:14:55,509 --> 00:14:51,920
we'd say introducing the Ten

290
00:14:57,610 --> 00:14:55,519
Commandments now what anyone who is not

291
00:14:59,470 --> 00:14:57,620
read the Ten Commandments not

292
00:15:01,449 --> 00:14:59,480
particularly good but will most of them

293
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:01,459
are particularly good so and we'd make

294
00:15:05,439 --> 00:15:03,529
the you know pretty false argument now

295
00:15:08,259 --> 00:15:05,449
that I would understand now is that you

296
00:15:10,329 --> 00:15:08,269
know most of our law is based on content

297
00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:10,339
commandments of course large parts of it

298
00:15:15,129 --> 00:15:13,430
or not now we would go through then with

299
00:15:16,530 --> 00:15:15,139
them and explain this would be by week

300
00:15:19,689 --> 00:15:16,540
three would be explaining to them how

301
00:15:23,439 --> 00:15:19,699
whether they know it or not they've

302
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:23,449
broken all these Commandments you know

303
00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:24,800
if you ever had a if you ever been

304
00:15:28,090 --> 00:15:26,870
really angry at you did you know ever

305
00:15:29,679 --> 00:15:28,100
had that moment you've just told your

306
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:29,689
dad you're going you know stick it and

307
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:31,250
you've been really mad and you've

308
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:32,480
thought something really badly about

309
00:15:36,699 --> 00:15:34,490
anymore you've ever you know thought

310
00:15:38,019 --> 00:15:36,709
about having sex with someone you know

311
00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:38,029
if you just think about these things

312
00:15:43,809 --> 00:15:39,470
you've actually committed the crime and

313
00:15:45,999 --> 00:15:43,819
you're guilty and I find it really hard

314
00:15:48,249 --> 00:15:46,009
now I mean this is for me this is it

315
00:15:49,929 --> 00:15:48,259
seems quite recent history but so far

316
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:49,939
removed that I've struggled to say it

317
00:15:54,970 --> 00:15:52,910
now with a straight face no I really do

318
00:15:56,619 --> 00:15:54,980
like you know to me it seems so removed

319
00:15:58,540 --> 00:15:56,629
from where i am now that to send here

320
00:16:00,850 --> 00:15:58,550
and talk to you it seems like i might be

321
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,860
setting up for a really bad joke but I'm

322
00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:02,959
not this is quite seriously what they

323
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:04,910
would come in until and then of course

324
00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:05,839
you know so you go through the Ten

325
00:16:09,699 --> 00:16:08,269
Commandments and then you know the one

326
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:09,709
of the worst discussions that i can

327
00:16:14,199 --> 00:16:12,170
remember which was a common discussion

328
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:14,209
would be better us there was there was a

329
00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:16,160
section in our course we actually are

330
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:17,480
students if they had lost the virginity

331
00:16:21,429 --> 00:16:19,490
or not and explaining how that was

332
00:16:22,809 --> 00:16:21,439
really an affront to God and how you

333
00:16:24,199 --> 00:16:22,819
know you can't repair that and how it's

334
00:16:26,239 --> 00:16:24,209
going to damage and ruin your life

335
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:26,249
you know forever because you've you've

336
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:30,569
taken these steps now they move pretty

337
00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:32,910
quickly past that and then you know by

338
00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:34,470
this point yeah at this point the kids

339
00:16:39,230 --> 00:16:36,889
of course are well and truly going will

340
00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:39,240
holy crap you know what do we what do we

341
00:16:42,199 --> 00:16:40,769
do we've pissed off we've pissed off

342
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:42,209
this guy that we didn't know existed

343
00:16:48,439 --> 00:16:47,040
until a few weeks ago and and what are

344
00:16:50,809 --> 00:16:48,449
we supposed to do you know is there

345
00:16:52,939 --> 00:16:50,819
anything we can do well actually because

346
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,949
you've done these things it's not that

347
00:16:56,350 --> 00:16:54,240
doesn't stop there because you've done

348
00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:56,360
these things you know so weak week five

349
00:17:01,220 --> 00:16:59,100
there's this place called Hill which is

350
00:17:04,639 --> 00:17:01,230
reserved for people who have broken

351
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:04,649
these laws so unfortunately because

352
00:17:10,639 --> 00:17:07,970
you've done these things um hell is um

353
00:17:12,829 --> 00:17:10,649
so I mean I'm I'm just telling you I

354
00:17:15,139 --> 00:17:12,839
have to tell you because I really love

355
00:17:17,029 --> 00:17:15,149
you and I really care about you and I

356
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:17,039
really hope that you know you get this

357
00:17:20,569 --> 00:17:18,809
right and yeah well what do we do well

358
00:17:24,490 --> 00:17:20,579
fortunately there's this guy called

359
00:17:26,899 --> 00:17:24,500
Jesus right and you know if you just

360
00:17:31,490 --> 00:17:26,909
tell him that you love him and you're

361
00:17:33,889 --> 00:17:31,500
sorry then he will take away all those

362
00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:33,899
things that you did and everything will

363
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:35,460
be wonderful again so we create a

364
00:17:40,460 --> 00:17:38,820
problem than we solve it and and what we

365
00:17:41,779 --> 00:17:40,470
would do in the last week and this

366
00:17:45,470 --> 00:17:41,789
usually gets people's hackles up

367
00:17:47,060 --> 00:17:45,480
including my own now is in the last last

368
00:17:49,159 --> 00:17:47,070
session what we do is we'd have the

369
00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:49,169
whole group we'd have a whole class of

370
00:17:55,159 --> 00:17:52,020
kids about 30 kids at a time we'd have

371
00:17:56,659 --> 00:17:55,169
30 kids who would we'd go guys would you

372
00:17:58,340 --> 00:17:56,669
mind just you know closing your eyes for

373
00:17:59,870 --> 00:17:58,350
a moment and we want to give you some

374
00:18:02,149 --> 00:17:59,880
thought about everything that we spoken

375
00:18:04,490 --> 00:18:02,159
about in the last few weeks you know and

376
00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:04,500
if you if you're serious about moving

377
00:18:09,919 --> 00:18:06,270
past all those awful things that you've

378
00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:09,929
done and you're serious about making

379
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:13,470
things right then what we want you to do

380
00:18:18,649 --> 00:18:17,250
is accept Jesus into your life and you

381
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:18,659
know while your eyes are all closed we

382
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:19,890
won't just pop your hand up if you'd

383
00:18:25,690 --> 00:18:23,460
like to do that now at a guess how many

384
00:18:30,649 --> 00:18:25,700
people would you say pop their hands up

385
00:18:32,269 --> 00:18:30,659
30 yeah exactly 30 30 easily ever if we

386
00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:32,279
if we didn't have one it was usually

387
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:34,200
yeah we had one out every now and then

388
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:36,510
it was a surprise but invariably the

389
00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:37,440
whole room went

390
00:18:41,419 --> 00:18:40,049
and then that was good because and this

391
00:18:43,159 --> 00:18:41,429
was in school while you know it's all in

392
00:18:45,980 --> 00:18:43,169
school times I was never supervised by

393
00:18:47,269 --> 00:18:45,990
teachers at any stage of the game no one

394
00:18:50,049 --> 00:18:47,279
seemed to be interested that I was in

395
00:18:53,419 --> 00:18:50,059
classes telling kids these things at all

396
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:53,429
you know and I say I just be happily go

397
00:18:57,769 --> 00:18:55,039
away and we'd hand them permission slips

398
00:18:59,240 --> 00:18:57,779
which they could then take home to their

399
00:19:00,680 --> 00:18:59,250
parents to sign once they'd made this

400
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:00,690
wonderful decision to commit their lives

401
00:19:05,869 --> 00:19:03,330
to Jesus they could take this permission

402
00:19:07,249 --> 00:19:05,879
slip home and if their parents send them

403
00:19:09,710 --> 00:19:07,259
back they get sent away to this

404
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:09,720
wonderful church camp which we used to

405
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:11,940
call encounter weekends now has anyone

406
00:19:15,649 --> 00:19:14,250
been involved in the Avenger willful

407
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:15,659
movement at all and heard of these

408
00:19:22,340 --> 00:19:18,000
things for encounter Wiccans I mean

409
00:19:23,539 --> 00:19:22,350
account of weekend is kind of like well

410
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:23,549
now I would loosely term it as

411
00:19:28,580 --> 00:19:26,730
brainwashing now but but they the idea

412
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:28,590
of an encounter weekend so you come away

413
00:19:31,940 --> 00:19:30,840
with the church and you're separated

414
00:19:33,619 --> 00:19:31,950
male and female you're not allowed to

415
00:19:35,570 --> 00:19:33,629
have mobile phones you don't have any

416
00:19:39,499 --> 00:19:35,580
contact with your family and you spend a

417
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:39,509
weekend away where basically you get

418
00:19:44,299 --> 00:19:42,450
this huge form when you come in and they

419
00:19:46,009 --> 00:19:44,309
teach you how to speak in tongues they

420
00:19:47,869 --> 00:19:46,019
spend a weekend casting demons out of

421
00:19:49,389 --> 00:19:47,879
kids who might have been them and

422
00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:49,399
possessed without their knowledge

423
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:52,590
throughout that xperia and and then we

424
00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:54,330
spend this time with a they do this sort

425
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:55,769
of ceremonial it's almost like a Tony

426
00:19:58,669 --> 00:19:56,970
Robbins kind of meeting you know were

427
00:19:59,930 --> 00:19:58,679
they they write down all their ticket

428
00:20:01,039 --> 00:19:59,940
like a ticket boxing where they tick off

429
00:20:02,450 --> 00:20:01,049
all the sins and things that they've

430
00:20:04,580 --> 00:20:02,460
committed or or their family members

431
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,590
might have committed so so generational

432
00:20:08,389 --> 00:20:06,480
sins will they call it and you took off

433
00:20:09,649 --> 00:20:08,399
all those things and then you keep on

434
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:09,659
your hot little hand they make a big

435
00:20:12,769 --> 00:20:11,129
fire and you chuck your sins into the

436
00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:12,779
fire and then you thank God for giving

437
00:20:20,749 --> 00:20:17,940
you now so you get to the end of that

438
00:20:22,009 --> 00:20:20,759
and then you know the kids come back and

439
00:20:23,509 --> 00:20:22,019
then they go straight into something

440
00:20:25,820 --> 00:20:23,519
which used to be called cell groups and

441
00:20:28,129 --> 00:20:25,830
which became really unpopular after

442
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:28,139
September September 11 so that's what

443
00:20:31,580 --> 00:20:29,129
that will call this is what they were

444
00:20:33,980 --> 00:20:31,590
called I'm sorry so we have this cell

445
00:20:35,419 --> 00:20:33,990
group meetings yes over its own is a

446
00:20:37,639 --> 00:20:35,429
wonderful thing you know I'm strong

447
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:37,649
we're on a watch list somewhere just

448
00:20:41,930 --> 00:20:40,289
because of the name but but no they go

449
00:20:43,249 --> 00:20:41,940
through that they'd join us over for a

450
00:20:46,039 --> 00:20:43,259
small group and they do one-on-one

451
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:46,049
discipleship I was on I'm still now

452
00:20:49,789 --> 00:20:47,940
quite astounded by the amount of parents

453
00:20:51,739 --> 00:20:49,799
who are quite happy

454
00:20:54,409 --> 00:20:51,749
just to let someone they didn't know on

455
00:20:56,930 --> 00:20:54,419
the basis that though from a church just

456
00:20:59,470 --> 00:20:56,940
come and spend isolated time with their

457
00:21:03,259 --> 00:20:59,480
children without any questions at all

458
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:03,269
now it you know for them they're quite

459
00:21:08,899 --> 00:21:05,610
fortunate that it was me because I'm not

460
00:21:10,399 --> 00:21:08,909
criminal but um I often wonder how given

461
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:10,409
everything in the media the parents are

462
00:21:15,979 --> 00:21:13,230
still quite willing to say yeah whatever

463
00:21:18,739 --> 00:21:15,989
please Soph you go spend time alone in

464
00:21:20,749 --> 00:21:18,749
um in their bedroom with kids talking

465
00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:20,759
about God I'm sure that's what you're

466
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:23,190
doing and we won't check on you at all

467
00:21:30,859 --> 00:21:28,440
and and so for mine I often ask like

468
00:21:33,049 --> 00:21:30,869
what are the implications of that you

469
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:33,059
know from that experience now most

470
00:21:37,399 --> 00:21:35,730
people here be looking now going well

471
00:21:40,159 --> 00:21:37,409
that's all that's well a nice now we can

472
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:40,169
see the obvious problems but now I've

473
00:21:45,229 --> 00:21:42,809
spoken to so many people now where

474
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:45,239
there's no actual solutions that are in

475
00:21:51,049 --> 00:21:47,460
place to actually deal with what's going

476
00:21:52,580 --> 00:21:51,059
on now my problem at the moment my main

477
00:21:54,619 --> 00:21:52,590
problem at the moment I don't know that

478
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:54,629
I'd really be that upset if the Uniting

479
00:21:57,919 --> 00:21:56,129
Church just decided hey we're going to

480
00:21:59,599 --> 00:21:57,929
go do scripture in high schools now I

481
00:22:01,249 --> 00:21:59,609
get the sense about the Uniting Church

482
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:01,259
that it might probably just be more

483
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:03,210
about you know philosophy and ethics and

484
00:22:06,349 --> 00:22:05,039
the most uniting church people I know

485
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:06,359
aren't even really sure if there's a God

486
00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:08,369
themselves so they don't tend to be that

487
00:22:12,889 --> 00:22:11,220
but the evangelical church is much

488
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:12,899
different to that and they're cashed-up

489
00:22:18,529 --> 00:22:16,169
much really cashed up most of the money

490
00:22:21,109 --> 00:22:18,539
for us when we were going at teaching

491
00:22:23,149 --> 00:22:21,119
Scripture came from the large mega

492
00:22:26,090 --> 00:22:23,159
church that was you know on the corner

493
00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:26,100
wasn't Hillsong for the record that so

494
00:22:29,749 --> 00:22:28,350
it was very similar actually the bulk of

495
00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:29,759
what you see at Hillsong actually arose

496
00:22:32,389 --> 00:22:31,590
out of a church cord wasn't the time

497
00:22:35,419 --> 00:22:32,399
called penrith christian fellowship

498
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:35,429
center and most of the ministry that

499
00:22:41,149 --> 00:22:38,970
exists in Hillsong outside of the

500
00:22:43,789 --> 00:22:41,159
Houstons was from kind of christian

501
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:43,799
fellowship center and they started a

502
00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:45,570
huge amount of this and that's sort of

503
00:22:50,570 --> 00:22:48,600
where I grew up so you look outside of

504
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:50,580
that whole behavior that demonology and

505
00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:53,369
everything else and this is a society

506
00:22:57,769 --> 00:22:55,590
outside of a few small small group of

507
00:23:00,049 --> 00:22:57,779
people are quite happy for people who

508
00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:00,059
are like me to go around teaching people

509
00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:03,000
is so I suppose my

510
00:23:09,980 --> 00:23:06,680
question is as more to the group is

511
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:09,990
what's wrong with that and and why do we

512
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:14,310
not make more noise about it and because

513
00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:20,280
I I mean I was never trained I ever I

514
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:21,990
was never presented with any sort of

515
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:24,510
legal guidelines or framework we're told

516
00:23:27,410 --> 00:23:25,650
that there was things that I wasn't

517
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,420
allowed to say I wasn't allowed to do I

518
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:29,280
was allowed into the school five days a

519
00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:31,860
week I was able to run my groups inside

520
00:23:36,980 --> 00:23:33,900
the school without any question or any

521
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:36,990
supervision at any point and that wasn't

522
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:38,400
just in one school wasn't just an

523
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:40,110
anomaly of you know this one school and

524
00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:42,330
it was quite common for these things to

525
00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:44,550
take place where either the teachers are

526
00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:47,220
too exhausted to either have the time to

527
00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:50,520
supervise or you know the or their

528
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:51,900
disinterested because they're not really

529
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:54,690
paid enough to care well I suppose I

530
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:56,010
don't know if that's fair fair to say

531
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,810
that I mean you can't be everywhere and

532
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:59,520
I'm married to a teacher and I'm she'll

533
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:01,380
be the first person told me that she

534
00:24:06,740 --> 00:24:02,490
can't be everywhere and has no

535
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:06,750
inclination to be so on that I think

536
00:24:12,460 --> 00:24:08,130
that sort of leaves enough for me to

537
00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:12,470
answer questions if there are any oh

538
00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:14,700
there's no no I mean there's the there's

539
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:16,980
the the the main guy as in you're

540
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:18,930
working with children's check but though

541
00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:20,370
like when I work for the church that was

542
00:24:24,740 --> 00:24:21,780
a standard form for the church that we

543
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,750
saw it so we we could produce a copy of

544
00:24:28,790 --> 00:24:26,240
that that said that they will checked

545
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:28,800
but and so to that extent that's one

546
00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:31,710
thing but outside of I don't remember in

547
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:35,430
two years I can't remember a I can't

548
00:24:38,690 --> 00:24:37,050
remember a teacher I think I had one

549
00:24:40,790 --> 00:24:38,700
teacher maybe in two years sort of pop

550
00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:40,800
their head in the door and show a little

551
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:43,080
bit of being a disgruntled about what we

552
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:48,720
were saying but it was me no no actually

553
00:24:52,430 --> 00:24:50,850
one school one school principal was was

554
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:52,440
part of the church that was funding us

555
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:56,450
so um he was quite ecstatic to see us

556
00:25:02,210 --> 00:25:00,480
yeah holy public public schools and so

557
00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:02,220
the money was coming from cuz this was

558
00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:04,860
in in penrith there was a protestant

559
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:07,950
churches education board in penrith so

560
00:25:10,580 --> 00:25:09,210
we had about it's about fourteen

561
00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:10,590
thousand dollars a year that was coming

562
00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:13,140
and the bulk of that money was something

563
00:25:16,169 --> 00:25:14,820
around like 11 thousand for fourteen

564
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:16,179
thousand dollars was coming for

565
00:25:22,109 --> 00:25:18,850
the one church who had the money the

566
00:25:23,549 --> 00:25:22,119
money to spend and so while they used to

567
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:23,559
say it was kind of you know democratic

568
00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:24,850
you know we're all here to help each

569
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:26,619
other and everything the bulk of the

570
00:25:30,629 --> 00:25:29,440
bulk of the students that went through

571
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:30,639
they either went to that church will

572
00:25:34,619 --> 00:25:32,230
they they went to my youth group for a

573
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:34,629
short period of time as well when we

574
00:25:38,129 --> 00:25:36,369
started teaching scripture I'd started

575
00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:38,139
out I had five kids in the youth program

576
00:25:43,169 --> 00:25:40,600
within a term I had 90 you know just

577
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:43,179
from from one set of scripture classes

578
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:44,850
that was a 10 week a 10 week program

579
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:47,470
sorry if so question how did the kids

580
00:25:52,710 --> 00:25:50,529
actually come to oh well what we did we

581
00:25:55,019 --> 00:25:52,720
sent a we had a note that was actually

582
00:25:57,989 --> 00:25:55,029
sent out a notice that the parents had

583
00:25:59,999 --> 00:25:57,999
to opt out so they had a note sent out

584
00:26:02,340 --> 00:26:00,009
that basically said it's police sent us

585
00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:02,350
back if you have a problem not police

586
00:26:05,549 --> 00:26:03,580
send us back if you would like your

587
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:05,559
child to attend which I would have

588
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:06,490
thought would have been the normal way

589
00:26:11,639 --> 00:26:09,610
around but it's where we sent it yeah no

590
00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:11,649
co high school it's they though there

591
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:13,480
was the entitlement no no we didn't know

592
00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:14,980
we had no involvement with primary

593
00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:17,980
school at all the primary school in our

594
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:19,480
primary schools in our area where

595
00:26:24,570 --> 00:26:21,970
actually serviced by a Catholic group

596
00:26:26,369 --> 00:26:24,580
that did the whole thing and we didn't

597
00:26:28,379 --> 00:26:26,379
seem largely interested it was year 7

598
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:28,389
was where we wanted where we wanted to

599
00:26:39,239 --> 00:26:37,690
be and um I think I don't think 13 year

600
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:39,249
olds disposable incomes any higher than

601
00:26:44,249 --> 00:26:43,210
a 10 year olds but but they know the I

602
00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:44,259
don't think it was I think it was more

603
00:26:48,419 --> 00:26:45,220
the age that they could actually

604
00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:48,429
understand the concept of of sin and

605
00:26:51,810 --> 00:26:50,230
there was nothing like there was nothing

606
00:26:53,999 --> 00:26:51,820
about me at the time I mean this is

607
00:26:56,669 --> 00:26:54,009
something that I was I was more or less

608
00:26:58,350 --> 00:26:56,679
born into there was no concept that you

609
00:26:59,940 --> 00:26:58,360
know that I was being manipulative or

610
00:27:02,159 --> 00:26:59,950
doing something untoward and I thought I

611
00:27:03,749 --> 00:27:02,169
was doing these kids a favor you know I

612
00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:03,759
was saving them from something that was

613
00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:06,220
perfectly awful for all the time you

614
00:27:10,499 --> 00:27:08,470
know so there was no sense and there was

615
00:27:12,419 --> 00:27:10,509
no one that I've known ever that that

616
00:27:15,239 --> 00:27:12,429
taught scripture who was teaching

617
00:27:17,879 --> 00:27:15,249
scripture and saying this is awful where

618
00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:17,889
are we you know snide and evil the

619
00:27:22,019 --> 00:27:19,960
bastards for doing this there was no

620
00:27:31,009 --> 00:27:22,029
sense of that at all we were doing good

621
00:27:37,289 --> 00:27:36,029
well the church is basically I they tell

622
00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:37,299
anyone who will listen not to have

623
00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:40,360
anything to do with me so that like a

624
00:27:44,090 --> 00:27:42,100
church I grew up in so socially you just

625
00:27:46,139 --> 00:27:44,100
you have no friends pretty quickly

626
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:46,149
because which is not such a bad thing

627
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:48,850
because I don't really have a lot in

628
00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:50,289
common with them anymore I've actually

629
00:27:55,409 --> 00:27:51,700
it's quite funny I've actually become

630
00:27:58,590 --> 00:27:55,419
the I've become like the church groups

631
00:28:00,930 --> 00:27:58,600
have become their little black priest I

632
00:28:03,389 --> 00:28:00,940
suppose in the sensor it's like you know

633
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:03,399
because the idea is that things are

634
00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:05,529
meant to be perfect neither yeah because

635
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:08,230
God is good and then you know it's got

636
00:28:12,659 --> 00:28:10,809
about you know having everything you

637
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:12,669
want having a perfect life and things if

638
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:14,470
you just do these things and everything

639
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,330
works out perfectly which everyone here

640
00:28:19,619 --> 00:28:18,159
knows that they don't you know life just

641
00:28:22,379 --> 00:28:19,629
happens regardless of whether you

642
00:28:24,779 --> 00:28:22,389
professor belief or or otherwise now

643
00:28:26,970 --> 00:28:24,789
what I find now is that I the people

644
00:28:28,499 --> 00:28:26,980
will just swear what they have nothing

645
00:28:30,930 --> 00:28:28,509
to do and they will ignore me have

646
00:28:32,999 --> 00:28:30,940
nothing nothing at all to do it you know

647
00:28:34,859 --> 00:28:33,009
to the point of just out of rudeness and

648
00:28:36,269 --> 00:28:34,869
then something happens they do something

649
00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:36,279
catastrophic and they realize that if

650
00:28:40,109 --> 00:28:38,590
they tell the pastor of the church that

651
00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:40,119
they've done that they might be excluded

652
00:28:46,379 --> 00:28:41,740
from activities or isolated from people

653
00:28:48,029 --> 00:28:46,389
so they tell me instead my favorite one

654
00:28:49,499 --> 00:28:48,039
of course was the associate pastors wife

655
00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:49,509
who was like sleeping with five

656
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:51,940
different people in the church and and

657
00:28:57,629 --> 00:28:54,129
you know she was feeling quite guilty

658
00:28:59,039 --> 00:28:57,639
about about that or so so she told me

659
00:29:01,139 --> 00:28:59,049
you know it was going on I had another

660
00:29:03,749 --> 00:29:01,149
one like the worship the worship pastor

661
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:03,759
the worship pastor in the church as well

662
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:07,840
who her marriage had broken down and and

663
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:09,820
she hadn't had sex in a long time so

664
00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:11,610
it's off just doing anything with legs

665
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:14,289
and as she was another one who calls me

666
00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:16,330
in the middle of her breakdown and and

667
00:29:20,159 --> 00:29:18,700
then of course you know the the crisis

668
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:20,169
ends and then they go back to forgetting

669
00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:21,970
that I pretending that I don't exist in

670
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:24,820
and and living life like it's wonderful

671
00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:29,520
and Jesus's wants me for something yeah

672
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:34,260
oh yeah sorry what my person of what was

673
00:29:39,980 --> 00:29:35,520
my personal epiphany was the question

674
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:39,990
and I do as it was a few I would always

675
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:43,410
tell people that my belief in my faith

676
00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:45,210
was grounded he was not just grounded in

677
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:48,390
one one particular thing but I'd gone to

678
00:29:52,910 --> 00:29:51,450
a you know a Pentecostal school where

679
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:52,920
they taught something called me gwa

680
00:29:57,530 --> 00:29:54,750
which is called man in God's world there

681
00:29:59,810 --> 00:29:57,540
was no science classes and of course

682
00:30:01,280 --> 00:29:59,820
you're indoctrinated taught so well that

683
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:01,290
when you when I didn't end up going to a

684
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:02,970
state high school I was taught very well

685
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:04,530
just to ignore exclude myself from

686
00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:07,650
anything that was resembling science at

687
00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:09,480
any rate so I had absolutely up until my

688
00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:11,780
mid 20s I had no concept at all of what

689
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:16,260
evolution was in slightest so the first

690
00:30:21,290 --> 00:30:19,740
the first point was when the church made

691
00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:21,300
this big fuss about this book called The

692
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:23,220
God Delusion and how we shouldn't read

693
00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:26,580
it and I know there was that but prior

694
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:28,920
to that I mean there's all these things

695
00:30:32,270 --> 00:30:30,450
there's always this constant challenges

696
00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:32,280
that that that stopped making your world

697
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:35,190
perfect you know I think from my early

698
00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:37,770
teens I'd started having anxiety attacks

699
00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:39,870
and and the church should always just

700
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:41,430
said no that's you know the devil

701
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:43,410
attacking you and you know demonic

702
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,570
harassment you know we don't who do all

703
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:47,520
this prayer and everything else and do

704
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:48,720
everything that the Bible would say to

705
00:30:52,460 --> 00:30:50,790
get your life into water and that the

706
00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:52,470
problems are still occurring and so

707
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:54,030
you'd pray some more and end up chasing

708
00:30:59,180 --> 00:30:55,890
your tail and it just makes us it even

709
00:31:00,770 --> 00:30:59,190
worse so there was that and to the point

710
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:00,780
where i first went actually saw someone

711
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:01,770
who knew what they were talking about

712
00:31:04,790 --> 00:31:03,330
who said well have you tried doing X Y

713
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:04,800
Zed and they stopped almost straightaway

714
00:31:13,340 --> 00:31:10,260
oh ok so that's nice and then when I was

715
00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:13,350
about 18 my father tried to kill himself

716
00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:16,110
when my parents were divorcing and that

717
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:18,030
kind of didn't fit into the whole church

718
00:31:21,530 --> 00:31:20,310
world view about what life was meant to

719
00:31:23,210 --> 00:31:21,540
be like and how it was meant to be

720
00:31:27,860 --> 00:31:23,220
perfect so there was there and then

721
00:31:29,450 --> 00:31:27,870
there was the persistent just crazy

722
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:29,460
morals which I could never quite

723
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,410
understand I mean I told you I mean the

724
00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:33,840
first one about that young that young

725
00:31:38,030 --> 00:31:36,120
lady and how to me I still it still just

726
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:38,040
makes me shudder that people could

727
00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:40,410
actually these are genuine people you

728
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:41,790
had meet in a street and go I won't they

729
00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:42,390
warm

730
00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:45,150
in nice you know otherwise normal people

731
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:47,520
and their beliefs and the morality is so

732
00:31:50,570 --> 00:31:49,200
twisted and so I mean one of the other

733
00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:50,580
ones of course when I was nuclear in the

734
00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:52,110
church I started dating and decided I

735
00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:55,140
really like having sex and and the

736
00:32:02,780 --> 00:31:57,960
church frowns on that you know so that

737
00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:02,790
was annoying yeah so i had to find a way

738
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:04,230
around that and i thought a theist and

739
00:32:10,670 --> 00:32:08,970
was as good as anything else no no

740
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,680
science science is the next big one for

741
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:12,480
me that no I think once you know once

742
00:32:15,260 --> 00:32:13,770
what you'd sort of take two of those

743
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,270
legs down things were a bit shaky and

744
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,760
then you know someone I remember I was

745
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:19,200
talking with the guy from answers in

746
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:21,510
genesis in he'd come out he was a

747
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:23,490
regular out at our church a lot of for a

748
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:25,170
lot of the time and he was coming out

749
00:32:29,630 --> 00:32:26,610
doing this talking I remember him saying

750
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:29,640
to me I'm using as an example in the

751
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:32,460
church talking about the evolution of of

752
00:32:36,380 --> 00:32:35,130
bats and how they would have fly it at

753
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:36,390
the cave and how they didn't always have

754
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:39,810
wings and how many how many bats had to

755
00:32:44,650 --> 00:32:41,910
jump fall to their death before the one

756
00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:44,660
behind them when all of all wings and

757
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:49,860
and and I you go well you know but even

758
00:32:54,380 --> 00:32:51,600
then I went no I don't think it works

759
00:32:55,610 --> 00:32:54,390
that way and I'm I don't even know

760
00:32:58,210 --> 00:32:55,620
anything but no that doesn't make sense

761
00:33:00,620 --> 00:32:58,220
I don't think that's how it works and

762
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:00,630
and by then you know it's I'd been

763
00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:01,770
obviously sure how to answer people

764
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:03,270
articulately and say I don't think this

765
00:33:07,670 --> 00:33:05,490
is right I came across this is quite I

766
00:33:08,990 --> 00:33:07,680
came across this excellent minister

767
00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:09,000
who'd come down who'd been completely

768
00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:11,910
outside of our little group of people

769
00:33:16,610 --> 00:33:13,920
for you know 20 odd years of my life and

770
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:16,620
he'd come as they complete outsider and

771
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:17,880
the first day into the church he's gone

772
00:33:21,020 --> 00:33:19,140
oh tell us all about you tell us about

773
00:33:22,940 --> 00:33:21,030
you but do you believe in everything

774
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:22,950
else and so I just basically started

775
00:33:26,420 --> 00:33:24,840
reciting the aog Creed more or less you

776
00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:26,430
know you know the inerrant Word of God

777
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:27,990
you have six and a half thousand years

778
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:30,480
older they're bouncing and he looked at

779
00:33:34,190 --> 00:33:32,760
me like I had rocks in my head and he'd

780
00:33:37,010 --> 00:33:34,200
never heard he didn't know that people

781
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:37,020
were that you know full-on he's like no

782
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:38,640
you know evolution is kind of like a

783
00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:40,260
it's not really you're not just an idea

784
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:43,260
and because that you know because you

785
00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:44,250
know we'd always think we're really

786
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:45,870
intelligent you know telling people that

787
00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:48,090
you know I evolution is just a theory

788
00:33:51,170 --> 00:33:49,140
you know

789
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:51,180
which like I said now it's been about

790
00:33:54,860 --> 00:33:52,500
four and a half years from in allen

791
00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:54,870
others I can't even imagine saying it

792
00:33:58,490 --> 00:33:57,000
now it just seems so remote to even

793
00:34:01,000 --> 00:33:58,500
suggest for a second that you would say

794
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:01,010
that someone with a straight face but

795
00:34:25,610 --> 00:34:22,350
the Here I am nonetheless hi I'm a

796
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:25,620
skeptic hell nurse a the wee beastie who

797
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,210
lives in the look I want to talk about

798
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:29,760
monster talk the podcast skeptically

799
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,310
examines monster story oh listen to your

800
00:34:36,919 --> 00:34:34,800
fancy talk why are you just watching the

801
00:34:40,669 --> 00:34:36,929
Lulu monster shows on the teller last

802
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:40,679
night huh oh yeah but but I watched

803
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,000
those because they helped me hone my

804
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:44,399
skeptical donut bit telling me out far

805
00:34:48,290 --> 00:34:46,770
keep eyes live look why don't you go

806
00:34:49,850 --> 00:34:48,300
back in that water over there and let me

807
00:34:52,070 --> 00:34:49,860
talk to people about monster talk Oh

808
00:34:54,649 --> 00:34:52,080
does that interest oh it doesn't have

809
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:54,659
pictures as a podcast I like fixtures

810
00:34:58,220 --> 00:34:56,700
miss Elvis brought for television look

811
00:34:59,840 --> 00:34:58,230
if you like pictures so much the how

812
00:35:01,700 --> 00:34:59,850
come all the photos of you are so blurry

813
00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:01,710
I don't know what you're talking about

814
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:03,780
i've never had any picture taken that's

815
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:06,090
that's probably true I don't want to be

816
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:08,610
on your show I wanna be on britain's got

817
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:11,280
talent like Susan Boyle I want to sing a

818
00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:13,920
proper Scottish song anyway please check

819
00:35:17,660 --> 00:35:15,360
out monster talk from your preferred

820
00:35:24,270 --> 00:35:17,670
podcast aggregator apart from monster

821
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:28,710
years may not spooky action at a

822
00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:38,360
I'm just cruising along in what has been

823
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:40,380
known as it's the skeptic nabil

824
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:42,480
basically what happens is Richard

825
00:35:46,820 --> 00:35:44,280
Saunders wakes up in the morning puts on

826
00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:46,830
some sort of cargo pants and pulls back

827
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:49,560
a bust of Shakespeare and slides down

828
00:35:53,570 --> 00:35:51,900
his jrf pole which is actually shaped

829
00:35:55,940 --> 00:35:53,580
like the letters J ref which is very

830
00:35:57,470 --> 00:35:55,950
painful for him and into the Saunders

831
00:35:59,180 --> 00:35:57,480
nabil now this is a pretty impressive

832
00:36:00,920 --> 00:35:59,190
you've got here I mean I tell you what

833
00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:00,930
when people see you pull up at the front

834
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:03,720
their place in a Mitsubishi they must

835
00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:07,110
really quiver they're skeptical you will

836
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:08,910
never make it on top gear Richard well

837
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:10,770
that's true but that's on another

838
00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:12,570
network you see I'm on the seven network

839
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:15,060
and Top Gear's on the nine network so we

840
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,710
got a problem there I've been hanging

841
00:36:21,170 --> 00:36:18,480
out with Richard today because he said

842
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:21,180
hey you gotta buy bargains you gotta buy

843
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:23,490
in bulk Maynard you've been he he is

844
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:26,730
debunking my going down to the Thai shop

845
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:28,680
and buying a five-dollar salad of runts

846
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:29,970
in a while and making that last for a

847
00:36:33,380 --> 00:36:31,170
couple of days because I'm a bachelor

848
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:33,390
live alone my place is the size of a

849
00:36:38,660 --> 00:36:35,640
postage stamp he goes nothing that let's

850
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:38,670
go to costco you can buy five kilograms

851
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,500
of tomato sauce there at bargain prices

852
00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:42,960
but I saw I saw people running out of

853
00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:45,900
there with no joke 5 litre containers of

854
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,390
barbecue sauce it's astounding I love

855
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:50,400
going to costco it's just good fun apart

856
00:36:54,410 --> 00:36:52,320
from anything else and for buying bulk

857
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:54,420
Vegemite of course and let me tell you I

858
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,510
only saw two pairs of pajama jeans there

859
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:00,000
and girls if you're going on there it's

860
00:37:04,850 --> 00:37:02,730
probably a very loose sloppy joe as we

861
00:37:07,790 --> 00:37:04,860
might call them in Australia as the top

862
00:37:09,860 --> 00:37:07,800
and footless tights I think I go that's

863
00:37:11,570 --> 00:37:09,870
what you wear I think that's the style

864
00:37:13,820 --> 00:37:11,580
may not I think that's a start but we

865
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:13,830
were just discussing actually and this

866
00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:15,390
is something that we might continue

867
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:17,270
later in skeptics in the pub this week

868
00:37:24,650 --> 00:37:20,910
but I'm beginning to have thoughts about

869
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:24,660
the public perception of two words we

870
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,610
know that the public have a very hard

871
00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:28,320
understand i'm getting the groups of

872
00:37:33,530 --> 00:37:30,180
words skeptic because and they all think

873
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:33,540
it means the cynical non-believer but

874
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:35,850
the public also

875
00:37:40,070 --> 00:37:38,490
no very well the word debunker or

876
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:40,080
debunking and they know what that means

877
00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:41,730
you know something's rubbish and someone

878
00:37:46,460 --> 00:37:43,140
comes along says look it's rubbish and

879
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:46,470
he is wise rubbish now a lot of the

880
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:48,540
schedule skeptical community don't like

881
00:37:51,980 --> 00:37:50,610
the word debunking or debunker because

882
00:37:54,350 --> 00:37:51,990
it sets you up from the beginning of

883
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:54,360
someone who's out to to disprove

884
00:37:58,850 --> 00:37:56,460
something whereas in reality we

885
00:38:02,840 --> 00:37:58,860
investigate now if something happens to

886
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:02,850
be bunk that we can say well look it

887
00:38:08,780 --> 00:38:05,610
doesn't work but i'm i'm wondering

888
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:08,790
whether the word debunking has got an

889
00:38:13,850 --> 00:38:11,880
unnecessarily bad rap look you know I

890
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:13,860
feel sometimes about skeptical movement

891
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:16,290
I reckon the term crackpots with

892
00:38:21,290 --> 00:38:18,570
evidence fits perfectly because you are

893
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:21,300
very intense and almost sometimes you

894
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:22,830
come across as being on some sort of

895
00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:24,690
they'll use a word crusade about

896
00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:26,670
something well and so you know you like

897
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:28,350
you might get a UFO believer on the

898
00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:30,390
radio you get you guys on the radio

899
00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:32,040
people will give you equal weight

900
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:34,470
because it's the media yeah oh yeah they

901
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:35,520
give the media will give you that way

902
00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:37,530
because you have an equal intensity and

903
00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:39,240
you can just proved your point with

904
00:38:43,490 --> 00:38:41,550
evidence more easily well I mean into a

905
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:43,500
lot of the media you're right we are

906
00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:46,110
crackpots the UFO believer will be a

907
00:38:49,550 --> 00:38:47,820
crackpot oh let's get them and the

908
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:49,560
skeptics who a lot of media just think

909
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:51,450
are the other sort of crackpots who

910
00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:53,040
don't believe anything blah blah blah

911
00:38:57,260 --> 00:38:54,630
and we'll get them together and that'll

912
00:39:00,530 --> 00:38:57,270
be our segment now I think more and more

913
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:00,540
meat there's a lot of media well ones I

914
00:39:04,010 --> 00:39:02,220
know realize that's not the way it works

915
00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:04,020
but they'll still do it because they

916
00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:05,550
know that's what is a quick and easy

917
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:08,430
story so with debunking the problem is

918
00:39:12,110 --> 00:39:10,170
that that's a potentially negative

919
00:39:14,060 --> 00:39:12,120
connotation straight out of the gate

920
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:14,070
because you're taking something away

921
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:16,290
from people that they believe in that

922
00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:17,970
might actually give them some comfort

923
00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:21,900
comfort yes but then again in the public

924
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:23,820
imagination the word skeptics probably

925
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,510
worse well skeptic means well we know

926
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,040
what it we know what it means how

927
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,160
listeners know what it means but people

928
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:34,320
like Randy and Joe Nickell I've seen on

929
00:39:39,110 --> 00:39:35,970
frequently on interviews having to

930
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:39,120
explain to the interviewer why they're

931
00:39:43,790 --> 00:39:41,910
not debunkers you know what I mean why

932
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:43,800
they don't you set out to do that

933
00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:46,170
I'm just I'm interested to know and this

934
00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:48,390
is why later on this week in skeptics in

935
00:39:53,630 --> 00:39:51,360
the pub will be asking pub goes what

936
00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:53,640
they think of this very issue often i

937
00:39:58,880 --> 00:39:55,500
say skeptics to people and they almost

938
00:40:00,590 --> 00:39:58,890
roll their eyes yeah yeah I get that all

939
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:00,600
the time yeah ma you could because

940
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:02,250
they're talking to me and I've just

941
00:40:06,050 --> 00:40:04,530
bought a year supply Vegemite it could

942
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:06,060
be at all the hat you're wearing I don't

943
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:07,890
know for our Australian distance I'm

944
00:40:16,859 --> 00:40:10,500
sporting the Leonard teal look from

945
00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:19,359
for our American listeners I'm sporting

946
00:40:25,809 --> 00:40:23,750
pepsin and extra from dragnet could be

947
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:25,819
yeah you look like a men in black today

948
00:40:32,050 --> 00:40:27,890
go when I walk in the room people go

949
00:40:33,309 --> 00:40:32,060
down danna anyway so why not just get

950
00:40:36,609 --> 00:40:33,319
the Hat and be done with it but you

951
00:40:38,290 --> 00:40:36,619
stopped me buying a blue plaid trilby

952
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:38,300
hat today I could have looked like you

953
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,920
know something from a wham film clip a

954
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:42,079
white cool cat in a trilby hat I mean

955
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:43,910
you gotta be cruel to be kind man I mean

956
00:40:48,430 --> 00:40:45,950
you would have looked at you were to cut

957
00:40:51,309 --> 00:40:48,440
a dash in your blue plaid at but you

958
00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:51,319
know we have to draw a little fence so

959
00:40:54,339 --> 00:40:52,760
instead i bought a doctor who stick a

960
00:40:56,140 --> 00:40:54,349
book for five bucks it was the weeping

961
00:40:58,300 --> 00:40:56,150
angels episode 2 i'm gonna go stick that

962
00:40:59,770 --> 00:40:58,310
all over my flat now i think you should

963
00:41:02,920 --> 00:40:59,780
may not i think you should and let's

964
00:41:04,510 --> 00:41:02,930
catch up again later in the week or for

965
00:41:06,370 --> 00:41:04,520
our listeners in a couple of seconds

966
00:41:09,460 --> 00:41:06,380
time and skeptics in the pub where we

967
00:41:12,370 --> 00:41:09,470
will ask the pub goers about this very

968
00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:12,380
debunking skeptical topic next time you

969
00:41:22,270 --> 00:41:19,780
look up at the skeptics meeting now I

970
00:41:23,470 --> 00:41:22,280
had have had 18 Cosmopolitan's in fact

971
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:23,480
there are no more left behind the bar

972
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:25,130
and I'm here with a remnant how are you

973
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:27,050
are you are like let's get the skeptic

974
00:41:30,730 --> 00:41:28,310
man in Australia how do you feel about

975
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,740
using the word debunkers instead of

976
00:41:34,330 --> 00:41:32,480
using the word skeptic because a lot of

977
00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:34,340
people skip big is a nebulous word that

978
00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:35,900
doesn't mean as much and debunkers like

979
00:41:38,860 --> 00:41:37,430
oh that's someone who finds out

980
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:38,870
something that's not real how do you

981
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:41,810
feel about is well it's a difficult one

982
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:44,090
because skeptic does to some extent

983
00:41:47,770 --> 00:41:45,950
means somebody who doesn't believe but

984
00:41:50,410 --> 00:41:47,780
methodological skepticism which is what

985
00:41:52,210 --> 00:41:50,420
we practice which is what we do that

986
00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:52,220
means looking for evidence and making

987
00:41:55,690 --> 00:41:54,020
decisions based on evidence which so

988
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:55,700
it's not believing but it's not

989
00:41:59,740 --> 00:41:57,770
believing until there is appropriate

990
00:42:01,930 --> 00:41:59,750
amount of evidence or good enough

991
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:01,940
evidence so what is the is the quick

992
00:42:05,380 --> 00:42:03,410
description you give people when I ask

993
00:42:07,230 --> 00:42:05,390
who the skeptics were they about what is

994
00:42:10,090 --> 00:42:07,240
normally say I say we seek the evidence

995
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:10,100
and and debunkers you think is that

996
00:42:14,590 --> 00:42:12,800
feeling of negativity been yes he does

997
00:42:17,050 --> 00:42:14,600
have a negative feeling about it and I

998
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:17,060
believe it is negative if you set out to

999
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:18,890
investigate something believing you're

1000
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:20,720
going to debunk it then you're not a

1001
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:22,730
skeptic now of course there are cases

1002
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:24,770
when we know something is not true

1003
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:27,440
before we set out to talk when before we

1004
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:28,370
start talking about it for example

1005
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:31,370
homeopathy unless we are in the process

1006
00:42:35,290 --> 00:42:34,130
of investigating homeopathy in a

1007
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:35,300
scientific from a scientific perspective

1008
00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:36,710
okay doing it going to do another

1009
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:38,900
research in which case we have to be 0

1010
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:40,970
completely open-minded about it and say

1011
00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:43,430
whatever the results are that that's

1012
00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:45,590
where we'll go based on all the

1013
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:48,260
available evidence to date we can debunk

1014
00:42:52,810 --> 00:42:50,480
homeopathy we know what the results of a

1015
00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:52,820
homeopathy study are likely to be and we

1016
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:55,190
can say homeopathy does not work and if

1017
00:42:58,090 --> 00:42:56,570
somebody tries to mislead the public

1018
00:42:59,729 --> 00:42:58,100
into believing on where but it does work

1019
00:43:02,529 --> 00:42:59,739
then we can can

1020
00:43:05,769 --> 00:43:02,539
debunk them without without it being

1021
00:43:08,170 --> 00:43:05,779
wrong but if you are if you're going to

1022
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:08,180
investigate something and your goal is

1023
00:43:12,579 --> 00:43:10,609
to debunk it then that's not real

1024
00:43:14,529 --> 00:43:12,589
skepticism that's not what a skeptic who

1025
00:43:15,849 --> 00:43:14,539
do oh you're basically looking for

1026
00:43:18,910 --> 00:43:15,859
something to boost your argument yeah

1027
00:43:20,259 --> 00:43:18,920
absolutely yeah and when I came up to

1028
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:20,269
you said it's perfect you should ask me

1029
00:43:24,009 --> 00:43:21,440
this question today is it something we

1030
00:43:26,019 --> 00:43:24,019
can talk about a microphone ok that's

1031
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,029
the secrets at secret basically that

1032
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:27,920
secret skeptics ghia what I can say is

1033
00:43:31,509 --> 00:43:29,569
that I believe the word skeptic has been

1034
00:43:33,549 --> 00:43:31,519
hijacked first of all by the climate

1035
00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:33,559
change skeptics but also by people

1036
00:43:38,109 --> 00:43:35,900
saying this you know oh I've been a

1037
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,119
skeptic but you know until I saw this

1038
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:40,400
and I but skepticism means something

1039
00:43:43,269 --> 00:43:42,410
beyond just not believing and that is

1040
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:43,279
something that people have got to

1041
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:45,890
realize and it is something that I've

1042
00:43:48,789 --> 00:43:47,569
been thinking about and it's a property

1043
00:43:50,769 --> 00:43:48,799
because I'm going to do something about

1044
00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:50,779
it now with the discovery to discern

1045
00:43:54,489 --> 00:43:53,390
that neutrinos may travel faster than

1046
00:43:56,140 --> 00:43:54,499
the speed of light does that mean I've

1047
00:43:57,700 --> 00:43:56,150
got to take down my poster of Einstein

1048
00:44:01,420 --> 00:43:57,710
for my wall and put one up of Deepak

1049
00:44:03,969 --> 00:44:01,430
Chopra I don't think Deepak Chopra would

1050
00:44:06,579 --> 00:44:03,979
have said that new cleaners fly faster

1051
00:44:08,049 --> 00:44:06,589
than light no I don't think it wasn't

1052
00:44:09,969 --> 00:44:08,059
that specific but I think he would tell

1053
00:44:12,099 --> 00:44:09,979
you that things can go fast in leiden he

1054
00:44:13,539 --> 00:44:12,109
knew it all are I'm sure he would say

1055
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:13,549
that it doesn't mean that he had said it

1056
00:44:17,289 --> 00:44:15,529
before that discovery the point is that

1057
00:44:19,539 --> 00:44:17,299
this discovery is still preliminary in

1058
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:19,549
all 170 scientists who are involved in

1059
00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:21,410
this discovery will say that it's

1060
00:44:25,329 --> 00:44:22,910
preliminaries to get still got to be

1061
00:44:27,279 --> 00:44:25,339
verified they've done their best to find

1062
00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:27,289
holes in their findings they have been

1063
00:44:30,729 --> 00:44:29,089
able to which is know why now after

1064
00:44:33,339 --> 00:44:30,739
about three years of research they've

1065
00:44:36,849 --> 00:44:33,349
opened it up to the not to the public no

1066
00:44:38,410 --> 00:44:36,859
mind you the Venus goddess but I've got

1067
00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:38,420
a calculator on my iPhone and I'm

1068
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:39,710
willing to work this one out for them

1069
00:44:43,779 --> 00:44:41,089
I've got a few hours spare light it or

1070
00:44:46,569 --> 00:44:43,789
not yeah well it's obviously a lot more

1071
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:46,579
complicated than that but look I think

1072
00:44:52,749 --> 00:44:50,210
odds are then they they most of those

1073
00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:52,759
scientists also will say that odds are

1074
00:44:57,069 --> 00:44:54,680
that all chances are that this will be

1075
00:44:59,229 --> 00:44:57,079
discovered to be some kind of mistake of

1076
00:45:01,150 --> 00:44:59,239
some sort measuring mistake a

1077
00:45:03,489 --> 00:45:01,160
calculating mistake a statistical error

1078
00:45:05,859 --> 00:45:03,499
of some sort but that doesn't mean that

1079
00:45:07,029 --> 00:45:05,869
he can't actually be true mmm it could

1080
00:45:09,089 --> 00:45:07,039
actually be true in which case that's

1081
00:45:11,499 --> 00:45:09,099
fantastic again and it doesn't disprove

1082
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:11,509
Einstein and that's important to point

1083
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,490
out what it means

1084
00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:14,800
there will be a refining of the theory

1085
00:45:18,030 --> 00:45:16,750
well there's actually just this week

1086
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:18,040
there was another research that actually

1087
00:45:24,450 --> 00:45:21,970
proved again that lights is actually II

1088
00:45:28,020 --> 00:45:24,460
really as light photons are restricted

1089
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,030
to the speed of light okay so so an

1090
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,480
Einstein's theory is one of the most

1091
00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:33,119
confirmed in the history of science

1092
00:45:38,130 --> 00:45:36,070
second only to quantum mechanics in

1093
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:38,140
terms of the number of number of digits

1094
00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:40,990
to the right of the decimal point so

1095
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:44,020
it's it's confirmed it Einstein was not

1096
00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:46,210
wrong what could happen is that Einstein

1097
00:45:50,970 --> 00:45:48,760
was wrong on some minut elements of the

1098
00:45:54,180 --> 00:45:50,980
theory and those will need to be refined

1099
00:45:56,670 --> 00:45:54,190
it's similar to the way Einstein did not

1100
00:45:59,220 --> 00:45:56,680
prove Newton wrong what he did was he

1101
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:59,230
proved that there could be a refining of

1102
00:46:04,350 --> 00:46:00,880
Newton's theory we still use use

1103
00:46:08,250 --> 00:46:04,360
Newtonian mechanics to send rockets to

1104
00:46:09,660 --> 00:46:08,260
Mars okay so you know that a lot of

1105
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:09,670
other people that are jumping up and

1106
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:13,270
down now going aha you are believers in

1107
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:15,040
science you're not treating it like it

1108
00:46:17,609 --> 00:46:16,000
should be treated you should be

1109
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:17,619
skeptical about these new findings on

1110
00:46:20,430 --> 00:46:18,670
that sort of thing and they're going

1111
00:46:21,870 --> 00:46:20,440
that's it space aliens obviously real

1112
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:21,880
because Einstein was wrong and I've

1113
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:24,210
heard people say that another podcast

1114
00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:29,980
nothing ours well they good on them for

1115
00:46:32,820 --> 00:46:31,480
their open-mindedness but this is

1116
00:46:35,609 --> 00:46:32,830
exactly a case where the mind is so open

1117
00:46:37,349 --> 00:46:35,619
keep your mind open your head so open

1118
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:37,359
that the brain spills out that's exactly

1119
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:40,690
one of those cases so what do you think

1120
00:46:44,910 --> 00:46:42,850
about the skeptics versus debunkers

1121
00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:44,920
debate I mean I mean they're both useful

1122
00:46:48,300 --> 00:46:46,390
words for the movement but do you think

1123
00:46:51,630 --> 00:46:48,310
that one should be moved used more than

1124
00:46:54,270 --> 00:46:51,640
the other well I think the debunking is

1125
00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:54,280
a very limiting label to put on oneself

1126
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:56,140
I mean limits you to one activity of

1127
00:47:00,090 --> 00:46:57,760
being a skeptic money you know it's not

1128
00:47:02,010 --> 00:47:00,100
just about proving other people wrong

1129
00:47:04,140 --> 00:47:02,020
would take as you say taking ideas away

1130
00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:04,150
from them but you think it's also bit

1131
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:05,800
hard to explain to people exactly what a

1132
00:47:11,010 --> 00:47:07,810
skeptic is usually because it's not a

1133
00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:11,020
not usually a short answer yes it is

1134
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:14,700
hard and I've failed on many occasions

1135
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:17,110
because something's hard doesn't mean it

1136
00:47:20,910 --> 00:47:18,570
doesn't need to solve a valuable label

1137
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:20,920
okay and what do you think about that

1138
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:24,490
issue well the word debunk implies that

1139
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:30,190
the person not making the claim has to

1140
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:33,760
disprove the claim and we all know that

1141
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:36,730
you can't disprove you can't prove the

1142
00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:41,470
negatives so skip that this word skeptic

1143
00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:43,390
as much as much better title and you

1144
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:45,550
have to wait for the evidence the

1145
00:47:51,540 --> 00:47:48,810
climate has to prove it not the skeptic

1146
00:47:53,460 --> 00:47:51,550
ok and then what's your name Naomi

1147
00:47:55,590 --> 00:47:53,470
hutchman ok now I mean now what what's

1148
00:47:57,300 --> 00:47:55,600
your view on the whole Dabanga versus

1149
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:57,310
skeptic labeling I do know that

1150
00:48:01,080 --> 00:47:59,200
sometimes we're confused with global

1151
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:01,090
warming skeptics and I really really

1152
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:04,210
really hate that mmm what what's your

1153
00:48:07,950 --> 00:48:05,650
quick way of explaining yourself out of

1154
00:48:09,450 --> 00:48:07,960
that I come from a family of

1155
00:48:11,010 --> 00:48:09,460
creationists and global warming deniers

1156
00:48:14,010 --> 00:48:11,020
and it's very hard to get a word in

1157
00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:14,020
Christmas must be hell for you oh we

1158
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:16,270
don't talk about that again so it's

1159
00:48:19,410 --> 00:48:17,590
mainly what what everyone's been doing

1160
00:48:21,810 --> 00:48:19,420
during the year is discussed oh yeah

1161
00:48:23,550 --> 00:48:21,820
yeah keep it nice so if you are trying

1162
00:48:25,620 --> 00:48:23,560
to say to people do i'm hanging with the

1163
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:25,630
skeptics and people normally that they

1164
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:27,310
get all climate skeptics they think do

1165
00:48:33,180 --> 00:48:29,530
they don't one really encountered anyone

1166
00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:33,190
who's asked me that so if you had to

1167
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:34,630
describe the skeptic movement briefly

1168
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:35,770
what do you normally used to say all

1169
00:48:40,590 --> 00:48:38,170
their bunch of people there let's say we

1170
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,600
follow the science that's the easiest

1171
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:42,160
way to describe oh just follow what the

1172
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:44,800
science says what's been tested rather

1173
00:48:48,570 --> 00:48:46,450
than just hearsay a lot of people can be

1174
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:48,580
very very very convinced of what's true

1175
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:49,810
but you don't really really know until

1176
00:48:54,270 --> 00:48:52,810
it's been properly tested okay so how do

1177
00:48:56,610 --> 00:48:54,280
you feel about use the word skeptic

1178
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:56,620
versus to bunker how much for the word

1179
00:49:00,330 --> 00:48:58,690
skeptics because the Dabangg come there

1180
00:49:02,430 --> 00:49:00,340
are very negative connotations with two

1181
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:02,440
bunkers and crackpots with evidence you

1182
00:49:06,090 --> 00:49:03,970
know I like that term crackpots with

1183
00:49:07,710 --> 00:49:06,100
evidence okay currently skeptics have

1184
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:07,720
already got the view

1185
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:10,810
being more cynics and so we really need

1186
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:12,310
to try and reclaim the word rather than

1187
00:49:17,130 --> 00:49:14,050
go for other words and debunk is just

1188
00:49:19,740 --> 00:49:17,140
another very negative words so I've got

1189
00:49:24,180 --> 00:49:19,750
an opinion on this would you know one

1190
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:24,190
sure it is obviously something you've

1191
00:49:28,290 --> 00:49:26,470
come up cross over the years skeptics to

1192
00:49:29,849 --> 00:49:28,300
bunkers being interchangeable but how do

1193
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:29,859
you feel about using debunkers to

1194
00:49:32,670 --> 00:49:31,119
explain it to people who don't know who

1195
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,680
skipped exam I always thought to bankers

1196
00:49:37,230 --> 00:49:34,800
with people who throw you out of bed

1197
00:49:39,060 --> 00:49:37,240
it's a very American word to it is i

1198
00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:39,070
know it is a very negative work because

1199
00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:40,780
it only has one outcome you actually are

1200
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:43,800
debunking where skepticism is

1201
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:46,510
traditionally about looking at the

1202
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:50,410
evidence and judging it either way so

1203
00:49:54,599 --> 00:49:51,520
what about when you get something like

1204
00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:54,609
you get climate skeptics that that the

1205
00:49:58,560 --> 00:49:56,230
regular skeptics claim aren't real

1206
00:50:00,000 --> 00:49:58,570
skeptics you get like a schism like that

1207
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:00,010
and that really confuses people it

1208
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:01,330
confuses people quite a lot they

1209
00:50:04,890 --> 00:50:02,470
basically getting skeptics and

1210
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:04,900
non-believers that's the attitude that's

1211
00:50:09,089 --> 00:50:06,880
why we differentiate ourselves through

1212
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:09,099
the clever process of spelling that

1213
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:11,470
there's SC skeptics and then there's sk

1214
00:50:15,630 --> 00:50:12,970
skeptics with a little less a little k

1215
00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:15,640
then there's capital s k skeptics and

1216
00:50:18,690 --> 00:50:16,990
that's make there's major differences

1217
00:50:20,010 --> 00:50:18,700
between the three actually it so it's

1218
00:50:21,630 --> 00:50:20,020
very confusing but i've actually had to

1219
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:21,640
explain it to people a great length at

1220
00:50:25,620 --> 00:50:24,130
various times what do you think which is

1221
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:25,630
performance on the one the other night

1222
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:27,609
there cuz i mean because it because

1223
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:28,930
people are gonna go you didn't see it I

1224
00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:30,880
didn't say I'm luckily no I'm just a lot

1225
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:34,380
of great ad see oh really yeah I believe

1226
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:37,330
and you did miss out on seeing some data

1227
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:39,880
say wacko the dillio on television BGC

1228
00:50:43,470 --> 00:50:41,290
whack out the dillio sounded just like

1229
00:50:44,910 --> 00:50:43,480
Flanders you're absolutely fantastic I'm

1230
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:44,920
pleased to hear that i'm gonna click bad

1231
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:46,450
is still used actually wacko that it'll

1232
00:50:50,430 --> 00:50:48,730
open I'm actually quite pleased to hit

1233
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:50,440
to know that the word is a dual ally is

1234
00:50:54,450 --> 00:50:52,960
still used actually quite a lot Wow was

1235
00:50:55,770 --> 00:50:54,460
that one exert dual ally is that the

1236
00:50:57,150 --> 00:50:55,780
australian one no no it's actually in

1237
00:50:59,010 --> 00:50:57,160
regional things actually been so we've

1238
00:51:00,930 --> 00:50:59,020
actually Hugh Laurie use it the other

1239
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:00,940
day in house but it must have confused

1240
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:02,800
the Yanks totally and what does it

1241
00:51:08,190 --> 00:51:06,160
describe crazy guys IAM off with the

1242
00:51:09,660 --> 00:51:08,200
fairings blue alley that's a good word

1243
00:51:11,849 --> 00:51:09,670
use that one it's been great talking to

1244
00:51:15,329 --> 00:51:11,859
you dr. Chomsky my pleasure entirely

1245
00:51:18,450 --> 00:51:15,339
okay so how do you feel about the the

1246
00:51:19,710 --> 00:51:18,460
skeptic versus debunker label for a

1247
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:19,720
well what's going on here tonight for

1248
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:22,810
example look the problem over the term

1249
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:25,359
to bunker is that it gives the idea that

1250
00:51:30,359 --> 00:51:26,410
you're going in with a preconceived

1251
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:30,369
notion so if I was going to go in and

1252
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:33,130
debunk something then that automatically

1253
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:36,880
sets a a this you know preconceived idea

1254
00:51:40,859 --> 00:51:37,930
that I'm going to go and i'm going to

1255
00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:40,869
dismiss it knock it down shoot it shoot

1256
00:51:44,579 --> 00:51:42,310
it in the foot whatever i need to do

1257
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:44,589
right that's not what we're about what

1258
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:47,530
we do is we go in and we look yeah the

1259
00:51:52,530 --> 00:51:49,330
evidence each side left and right and

1260
00:51:54,210 --> 00:51:52,540
make a decision on that you think some

1261
00:51:55,890 --> 00:51:54,220
critical thinking also confuses people

1262
00:51:58,500 --> 00:51:55,900
too because a lot of people don't know

1263
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:58,510
what that means as well well it sounds

1264
00:52:01,560 --> 00:51:59,920
too highbrow I think the turn of

1265
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:01,570
critical thinking oh you're a critical

1266
00:52:05,730 --> 00:52:03,550
thinker you you must be you know one of

1267
00:52:08,730 --> 00:52:05,740
those smart guys you might use the word

1268
00:52:10,050 --> 00:52:08,740
philosophy yeah that's right yeah and I

1269
00:52:12,359 --> 00:52:10,060
think it's shoots over people's heads

1270
00:52:14,550 --> 00:52:12,369
too much and but the people we need to

1271
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:14,560
aim towards other people that wouldn't

1272
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:16,570
use a term like critical think your day

1273
00:52:20,490 --> 00:52:18,970
to day hmm but how else do you get that

1274
00:52:23,010 --> 00:52:20,500
message across I don't I don't

1275
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:23,020
understand it is a bit of a quandary and

1276
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:25,089
what do you think on the whole debunker

1277
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:27,010
this is skeptic it's really interesting

1278
00:52:30,810 --> 00:52:29,050
one because I don't like the term

1279
00:52:32,190 --> 00:52:30,820
skeptic the more I'm getting into the

1280
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:32,200
skeptical community the more I

1281
00:52:36,359 --> 00:52:34,210
appreciate that it is actually probably

1282
00:52:38,430 --> 00:52:36,369
the best word um do you think there is

1283
00:52:41,460 --> 00:52:38,440
another one or as someone who's just

1284
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:41,470
recently been on the committee how do

1285
00:52:45,450 --> 00:52:43,480
you describe to your friends what you're

1286
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:45,460
doing but without using the words it's

1287
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:47,050
quite funny when I use the word skeptic

1288
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:48,310
because I work in an environmentally

1289
00:52:52,109 --> 00:52:50,170
institution automatically people think

1290
00:52:53,609 --> 00:52:52,119
skeptic gum climate change skeptics so

1291
00:52:55,470 --> 00:52:53,619
run look at me looks at me with this

1292
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:55,480
horrified look on their face going what

1293
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:56,650
are you doing in an environmental

1294
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,970
organization if you don't believe in

1295
00:53:01,680 --> 00:52:59,680
climate change and it's like no no it's

1296
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:01,690
not about got nothing to do with that so

1297
00:53:05,250 --> 00:53:03,130
it is really difficult because the word

1298
00:53:07,230 --> 00:53:05,260
was probably running along quite well

1299
00:53:09,390 --> 00:53:07,240
and then it kind of got hijacked by a

1300
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:09,400
group of people that don't sit in the

1301
00:53:13,980 --> 00:53:12,160
same camp as us anyway I do like

1302
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:13,990
critical thinking I think I do tend to

1303
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:15,760
use that when I'm describing what I'm

1304
00:53:18,450 --> 00:53:16,930
doing

1305
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:18,460
you know and when I explain it to people

1306
00:53:21,870 --> 00:53:20,290
is it's something that we all do every

1307
00:53:24,030 --> 00:53:21,880
day you just sometimes don't know that

1308
00:53:26,250 --> 00:53:24,040
you're doing it and debunking is a term

1309
00:53:28,740 --> 00:53:26,260
you defer to stay away from yeah i don't

1310
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:28,750
think i would use it myself but i think

1311
00:53:33,089 --> 00:53:31,150
each of us has to have something that

1312
00:53:34,799 --> 00:53:33,099
we're comfortable with explained to

1313
00:53:36,270 --> 00:53:34,809
other people what the what we're up to

1314
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:36,280
and what we're doing so if it is a

1315
00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:37,150
matter of using critical thinking

1316
00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:39,550
skeptics or debunking I think if they're

1317
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:41,710
all valid if it helps one person

1318
00:53:46,290 --> 00:53:44,010
explained to another what the point is

1319
00:53:48,569 --> 00:53:46,300
now what do you think of the issue as to

1320
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:48,579
whether skeptics should perhaps better

1321
00:53:52,829 --> 00:53:50,319
be known as debunkers because the term

1322
00:53:54,329 --> 00:53:52,839
debunking is more widely known and

1323
00:53:55,530 --> 00:53:54,339
accepted when if you say well I'm a

1324
00:53:59,460 --> 00:53:55,540
skeptic people don't always know what

1325
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:59,470
that means um that puts the onus on the

1326
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:01,839
skeptic to debunk rather than the person

1327
00:54:06,569 --> 00:54:03,970
making the claim to prove so it's not

1328
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:06,579
quite right and so what do you use when

1329
00:54:09,210 --> 00:54:07,690
people ask you all who are those

1330
00:54:10,980 --> 00:54:09,220
skeptics people you hang out and what's

1331
00:54:12,930 --> 00:54:10,990
the quick description pocket description

1332
00:54:14,339 --> 00:54:12,940
you usually give them because sometimes

1333
00:54:17,870 --> 00:54:14,349
people roll arise and go oh it's like

1334
00:54:21,210 --> 00:54:17,880
some weird geeky thing or something I

1335
00:54:22,829 --> 00:54:21,220
still use the term skeptic so but I just

1336
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:22,839
explained that they're not out to debunk

1337
00:54:28,049 --> 00:54:25,690
the route to to get people to prove

1338
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:28,059
their claims mm-hmm and do you think the

1339
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:29,890
term critical thinking confuses people

1340
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,040
even more sometimes yeah it sort of has

1341
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:34,720
the connotations of criticism rather

1342
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:38,799
than then what it actually means so

1343
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:39,970
people might take it the wrong way

1344
00:54:45,059 --> 00:54:43,210
mm-hmm I probably agree with the the

1345
00:54:48,839 --> 00:54:45,069
idea that debunking is perhaps a little

1346
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,849
bit negative because when you see minds

1347
00:54:52,289 --> 00:54:50,559
about crackpots with evidence I still

1348
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:52,299
think is the best one ever for skeptics

1349
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:55,839
that is really good that is crack

1350
00:54:59,309 --> 00:54:57,760
pockets with evidence that's us even

1351
00:55:01,470 --> 00:54:59,319
Michael Shermer liked it he wasn't even

1352
00:55:07,289 --> 00:55:01,480
drunk yeah yeah no that's that's us

1353
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:07,299
that's us um yeah well whenever you say

1354
00:55:11,130 --> 00:55:08,950
you're a skeptic and then you explain

1355
00:55:12,470 --> 00:55:11,140
what it is and debunking necessarily

1356
00:55:14,570 --> 00:55:12,480
comes into that you

1357
00:55:16,370 --> 00:55:14,580
then get told you all you get all the

1358
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:16,380
jokes are you skeptical about being

1359
00:55:20,810 --> 00:55:18,000
skeptical and you know what are you

1360
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:20,820
skeptical about and you know and then

1361
00:55:24,830 --> 00:55:22,710
sometimes it gets called City Hall I

1362
00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:24,840
think maybe it's it's more interesting

1363
00:55:30,859 --> 00:55:27,960
to think of ourselves as critical

1364
00:55:32,359 --> 00:55:30,869
thinkers because you think a lot of

1365
00:55:33,950 --> 00:55:32,369
people have trouble grasping at as well

1366
00:55:37,849 --> 00:55:33,960
they think honest just more philosophy

1367
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:37,859
I've got to learn possibly possibly I

1368
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:40,170
think if you if you if you're a critical

1369
00:55:46,130 --> 00:55:42,810
thinker then well firstly it's

1370
00:55:51,950 --> 00:55:46,140
interesting then debunking may or may

1371
00:55:55,460 --> 00:55:51,960
not flow from that it's um I think it's

1372
00:55:58,370 --> 00:55:55,470
still more positive yeah but in terms of

1373
00:56:00,920 --> 00:55:58,380
a label as to an all-encompassing label

1374
00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:00,930
to explain to people what we are in a in

1375
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:03,720
a little you know a little single bite a

1376
00:56:11,090 --> 00:56:07,680
little sound right hmm difficult really

1377
00:56:12,770 --> 00:56:11,100
difficult I can understand the argument

1378
00:56:14,180 --> 00:56:12,780
yeah and you can see what my crackpots

1379
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:14,190
whatever and seems to be gaining no

1380
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:15,330
traction whatsoever but I'm going to

1381
00:56:19,730 --> 00:56:17,910
keep trying ah look I'll of crackpots

1382
00:56:39,620 --> 00:56:19,740
with evidence I think we should adopt it

1383
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:42,900
have you heard about QED the exciting

1384
00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:44,710
skeptical conference 10 to 11 4 March

1385
00:56:50,370 --> 00:56:48,070
2012 quite exciting days you're probably

1386
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:50,380
wondering why should i go to QED while

1387
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:52,570
the existential dilemma will have the

1388
00:56:56,010 --> 00:56:54,370
investigator and legend Joe Nickell

1389
00:56:58,140 --> 00:56:56,020
quite extraordinary detective

1390
00:57:00,750 --> 00:56:58,150
alternative medicine expert Ed's orders

1391
00:57:02,790 --> 00:57:00,760
quacks in Deward difficulties monsters

1392
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:02,800
werewolves and lucid dreaming from debra

1393
00:57:08,970 --> 00:57:05,770
hi working theory demons Massimo

1394
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:08,980
polidoro head of the Italians questo a

1395
00:57:13,110 --> 00:57:11,200
garage auditory davidr Anna [\h__\h] and

1396
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:13,120
conspiracy theories whitey beatable

1397
00:57:18,180 --> 00:57:15,910
secular campaign Miriam namazi well

1398
00:57:19,650 --> 00:57:18,190
equality detractors sara angeles will

1399
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:19,660
shows how to play the Federman with

1400
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:22,110
robots withering electronic devices

1401
00:57:26,340 --> 00:57:24,160
ufologist ian ridpath with

1402
00:57:28,230 --> 00:57:26,350
extraterrestrial details professor steve

1403
00:57:30,210 --> 00:57:28,240
jones and white creationism is not some

1404
00:57:31,500 --> 00:57:30,220
quiet and evolution deniers podcaster

1405
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:31,510
and spoon bender Richard Saunders

1406
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:33,970
questions ESP demonstrations there are

1407
00:57:37,950 --> 00:57:35,650
filia Benson Queen existentialist

1408
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:37,960
debater and we'll have comedy from Robin

1409
00:57:42,090 --> 00:57:39,730
Ince and gas quality entertainment

1410
00:57:44,070 --> 00:57:42,100
definitely tickets are 89 pounds in

1411
00:57:47,970 --> 00:57:44,080
there going fast so re queue everybody

1412
00:57:50,930 --> 00:57:47,980
directly would you cut that out you can

1413
00:57:54,210 --> 00:57:50,940
get your ticket from QED calm dot org

1414
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:54,220
court event dome in marsh seriously if

1415
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:55,450
you don't stop bang enough to hurt

1416
00:58:01,420 --> 00:57:57,730
quickly end discussion comes QED

1417
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:01,430
Manchester question explore discover

1418
00:58:20,820 --> 00:58:16,860
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1419
00:58:25,050 --> 00:58:20,830
zone I had some tried-and-true medicine

1420
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:25,060
for colds a drink of water maybe it was

1421
00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:28,240
homeopathic water yes homeopathic water

1422
00:58:32,700 --> 00:58:30,100
it's like dehydrated water just add

1423
00:58:35,790 --> 00:58:32,710
water anyway I'm sure I'll be feeling

1424
00:58:37,230 --> 00:58:35,800
better before long I hope I'm feeling

1425
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:37,240
better before long because soon I'll be

1426
00:58:43,290 --> 00:58:39,310
packing my bags as I make my way to the

1427
00:58:44,970 --> 00:58:43,300
United States to take part in Saigon yes

1428
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:44,980
the conference for the committee for

1429
00:58:50,970 --> 00:58:48,640
skeptical inquiry where I'm lucky enough

1430
00:58:53,820 --> 00:58:50,980
to be a speaker if you want to find out

1431
00:58:55,950 --> 00:58:53,830
more about this conference I've never

1432
00:58:58,140 --> 00:58:55,960
been to New Orleans before I am looking

1433
00:59:01,950 --> 00:58:58,150
forward to it it's on at the end of our

1434
00:59:09,860 --> 00:59:01,960
October October 27th to 30th I check out

1435
00:59:14,460 --> 00:59:09,870
the website CSI conf e r e in ze sie

1436
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:14,470
conference got org really looking

1437
00:59:19,770 --> 00:59:16,960
forward to that and after that after

1438
00:59:21,330 --> 00:59:19,780
that in early november i'll be in the

1439
00:59:24,660 --> 00:59:21,340
orange county visiting my good old

1440
00:59:26,190 --> 00:59:24,670
friend from scribd oi com Brian Dunning

1441
00:59:27,570 --> 00:59:26,200
and i'll be giving a few talks down

1442
00:59:30,090 --> 00:59:27,580
there and i'll try to get some

1443
00:59:32,910 --> 00:59:30,100
information about those are into next

1444
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:32,920
week's show but i think it's time for me

1445
00:59:40,620 --> 00:59:37,290
to to get that hot water bottle and

1446
00:59:46,890 --> 00:59:40,630
climb under the covers and wish you all

1447
00:59:50,100 --> 00:59:46,900
a very good night desire recover from my

1448
00:59:52,290 --> 00:59:50,110
cold ample next week this is Richard

1449
00:59:58,500 --> 00:59:52,300
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1450
01:00:00,059 --> 00:59:58,510
Australia you've been listening to the

1451
01:00:04,769 --> 01:00:00,069
skeptic zone

1452
01:00:08,099 --> 01:00:04,779
visit our website at www skeptic zoomtv